Roger and Jacob: Rocking Relationships and Owning Your Skills

[00:00:04] Welcome back to a new episode of Formative, the show where today's leaders are interviewed by the leaders of tomorrow. On the show today, we're joined by Roger Ayer. Roger is a financial expert and the New York managing partner at Deloitte. In our conversation with him, we talk about overcoming imposter syndrome, the misconceptions of working and finance, and the value of building relationships.

[00:00:29] Hello and welcome. I'm Rachel Gazdick, CEO of New York Edge, and my co-host today is Jacob. Jacob, what can you tell us about yourself? I'm 18 years old and I'm a student at C.A.J.J. aka Community School for Social Justice. I'm a podcaster, community member, mentor, scholar, big brother, and the king of the making. Amazing. Okay, so who do we have on the show with us today? Today we're interviewing Roger Ayer. Great. Let's welcome Roger. Thanks for being on the show today.

[00:00:58] Well, it's an absolute pleasure to join the two of you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really looking forward to this conversation, Jacob. We are too. Jacob, what's your first question? What are some misconceptions there are about what you do? Yeah, oftentimes we're told that accountants are boring and stuffy and they're paper, pencil pushers. That is so far from the truth. I don't think I've touched a pencil in about 20 years or so.

[00:01:24] So, yes, we work hard and we use our brains, but we utilize technology and technology is changing each and every day. So, a lot of stuff that we do is rather exciting. If you can go to an organization and that organization say, hey, we need to improve our process and you can help them to improve their process so that they become more efficient, so that they make more money, so that they can give more money to their employees and their employees spend and the economy grows.

[00:01:53] That is rather impactful. So, what we do is not boring. We are not paper pushers at all, but it's rather really challenging and interesting work. All right. So, tell me, when you first started working in the light, were you anxious or scared? Did you feel a whole bunch of pressure or something like that?

[00:02:16] Yes. And it wasn't just about when I first started. I feel a whole bunch of pressure each and every day and here I am 33 years later. But that pressure is something that I'm comfortable with. That pressure is something that I've dealt with for the past three plus decades. I have the great pleasure of serving as our New York managing partner. And in that regard, I'm really charged with leadership and oversight for all of our people across our four world-class businesses.

[00:02:43] Any day brings about challenges, successes, failures, and it's my duty to ensure that our people have the resources that they need to be successful in terms of the service of our clients. And it's up to me to make certain that we're taking care of our people. So, yes, you continue to feel pressure. You continue to feel anxious because you never know what it is that you're going to be faced with on any given day. Me, I'm someone who really struggles from imposter syndrome, something like that.

[00:03:11] And in a way, all the pressure I be feeling, it's many calls by that. So, as someone who is at the very top of what you do, would you say that you still experience imposter syndrome despite everything you've achieved or not? I'd say earlier on in my career, absolutely yes. But I think at this stage, as I tend to wrap up my career and look forward to retirement in the not-too-distant future,

[00:03:37] I no longer feel it because I know the value that I bring to the organization. I know the value that I bring towards helping others to achieve success. So, I don't necessarily subscribe to imposter syndrome anymore. Earlier on, absolutely. But at this juncture in my career, it's really not something that I'm concerned about. Yeah, you know what you're worth now. Okay. So, do you have any coping mechanisms or any reminders to yourself for any time you start doubting yourself or something like that?

[00:04:09] I would say that I tend to not doubt myself, but what I tend to do is to arm myself with information. And that information enables me to achieve the modicum of success that I've achieved. It's not about doubting. For me, it's more so about preparedness. And to the extent you properly prepare, then all will be fine. And that doesn't mean that you don't make mistakes because you certainly do make mistakes.

[00:04:39] And I've made mistakes and I'll continue to make mistakes. But it's what do we do with those mistakes? How can we improve? How can we do something better tomorrow that perhaps we didn't do as well as we wanted to today? All right. So, speaking of mistakes, could you talk about some of your business failures where the advice you gave, the help you gave to someone, it just didn't work out or something like that? Oh, I've done that a million times. Early on in my career, I was focused on being a technician and expert.

[00:05:09] And there was a whole aspect of things that I didn't focus on. I didn't focus on the value of building relationships and networks. And that was a huge, huge mistake because in order to be successful in an organization such as ours, you need to have great brand eminence. And in order to have that eminence, you need to have broad-based relationships. You need to have people that call on you and you need to have people that you can call upon. And that's as a result of building relationships.

[00:05:37] So, it's not just about being a technician and an expert, but it's actually the marriage of the two that breeds success within any financial services organization. Keep in mind, we at Deloitte, we don't sell products. I see maybe you have an Apple phone or I see you have headphones on. We don't sell those things, but rather we sell services. And services are brought by organizations that are comprised of people.

[00:06:04] And people want to buy from people that they know, people that they trust, people that have great credibility. And that all comes about as a result of building solid relationships. So, when it comes to building relationships like that, do you have any, like, fundamentals? Like, is there any advice you have in your mind? Networking is so, so important in today's world. And it's all about having credibility. So, do you need to be that expert? Yes. Do you need to be that technician?

[00:06:34] Yes, you do. But you have to invest in relationships. And a relationship is not formed. You can't say network because you shook somebody's hand and you say, hey, hi, I'm Jacob. You are? That's not enough. It's follow-up. It's mingling plus follow-up. It's, hey, Jacob, we met the other day. What are you doing these days? How's school? How are your classes coming along? Let's establish a relationship, a rapport. And that happens over time. It doesn't happen overnight. But that is critically important towards success.

[00:07:10] Jacob, what would you like to do as you proceed through school? Honestly, one thing I'm really keen on right now is I just want to, I really want to be a musician. I want to create music in some way and just be part of the industry in some way. I'm not sure how I'm going to do it. Because in the first place, what a million wouldn't be is like a singer, but I don't know how to sing. So there's that. Or rather, I know the fundamentals. I know all the theoretical stuff when it comes to singing. When it actually comes to singing, I suck at it.

[00:07:39] So what about producing? Producing, yeah, I've thought of that. I've thought of that. And honestly, that might be what I focus on in concert like that. Either that or like, oh, I might be like some sort of sound engineer. Or, oh, I might be like the guy who helps out at concert like that, who helps do hair and all that stuff like that. And yeah, but as of right now, I haven't really taken any steps towards that.

[00:08:03] Because I literally found out what I wanted to do started this year towards the end of last year when I realized I really like music and I really want to do this. So that's why I haven't really taken any steps towards it. Besides from making connections and stuff like that. Aside from meeting all these different people and stuff like that. And just getting advice from all these different people and just preparing myself for the future. So yeah. The music business is not just about singing. So if that's something that you're passionate about, go for it, go for it, go for it.

[00:08:30] And it's okay if you decide later on that's not something that you want to do. But just keep pushing and pushing and pushing. All right. I'm going to do that. When you were in high school, what were your career dreams? I don't think I had much career dreams. Jacob is so far advanced in terms of where it is that he is versus where I might have been in high school.

[00:08:53] In high school, it was about how do we get to the next day and getting together with my friends and having fun. I was not overly studious in high school, but rather wanted to enjoy myself. But at some point, I want to say perhaps maybe in junior year, that's when he really started to buckle down. And there were the ACTs and PSATs.

[00:09:17] And he said, hey, I'm definitely going to college, but I need to start to focus more so in terms of academic. I think from an academics perspective, I was always naturally gifted and talented, but I didn't really have to work hard. It wasn't until my college years where I really had to buckle down and focus on my academic studies. All right. You graduated from Columbia University, right? I sure did. One of the colleges I'm interested in going to is Columbia.

[00:09:46] And that's been because like, I don't know, I just want to go there just to like flex everyone I went to Columbia or something like that. Yeah. There you go. I love it. Make it happen. Yeah. So could you tell me my experiences over at Columbia University and whether or not, like, did they give you skills that you like built upon or did they give you lessons that you still think about to this day? Yeah. Just tell my experiences. That's such a great question.

[00:10:10] And I would say while I was at Columbia, all of the different things that I learned were absolutely great. But I graduated from Columbia decades ago. And I don't retain those things that I learned in the classroom at Columbia. But what I have retained are the relationships. It's those relationships with my fellow classmates that are now leaders at organizations. It's relationships with the faculty, those that were teaching me.

[00:10:38] It's relationships with the alumni of the organization. And that has served me extremely well. So the academic value while there was fantastic. Today, I can't tell you a thing that I learned over at Columbia. But the credentials and the credibility that I gained by virtue of having gone to an institution such as Columbia has been outstanding.

[00:11:01] And their relationships, relationships, relationships with my fellow classmates, with the alumni, with the faculty, with all those that walk through the doors of Columbia has been outstanding throughout the entirety of my career. And will continue to be outstanding post my career at Deloitte. So can you tell me about some of your mentors growing up?

[00:11:25] Is there anyone who, like, really influenced the path you walked and just, like, and just, like, really pushed you forward and just there for you every step of the way or just most of the way? I would say my family has always been there for me, as well as friends, as well as other individuals. I started perhaps 32 years ago. But prior to joining Deloitte, I was with a private firm. And prior there, too, I was with another firm. And while I was in school, I had no idea what it was that I wanted to do.

[00:11:54] But times are not too different from how they are now. And I received counsel that said, hey, Roger, why don't you become an accountant? Because whether times are good or times are bad, you'll always find work. So I tell everybody that I lucked into what it is that I do. Because, again, I had no idea what it was that I wanted to do. But I went into it for job security, job stability. And I got lucky.

[00:12:19] So that positioned me and caused me to continuously invest in myself. So I came in early and I left late. I invested in myself. I made certain that I was reading when I wasn't in the office to understand what was expected of me, what could I be doing to serve my clients and to work with our teams in a great fashion. So what pushed me was the need to survive.

[00:12:48] We live in New York City. And in New York City, it's rough out here. However, you can make it if you work hard. So that was my key. Working hard, continuously investing in myself. We have just one last question we ask every guest on our show. Now, Jacob just turned 18. And we're wondering if you could go back and speak to your 18-year-old self, what would you say?

[00:13:15] If I can go back to my 18-year-old self, I would tell that 18-year-old self that, hey, work hard and it's going to be okay. You're going to have bumps and bruises and challenges and things are going to change. And maybe you're not going to go and do something that you thought you might want to go and do, but that's okay. Life throws all sorts of different things at you.

[00:13:39] But if you conduct yourself with ethics and you move forward and you work hard and you're sociable and personable and you invest in yourself, you're going to be absolutely fine. As an 18-year-old, perhaps there's great worry on our part. Well, what am I going to do? What am I going to be? How am I going to get there?

[00:14:02] And those are great questions, but those focus on working hard, investing in yourself, and make sure that you have fun along the way as well because that's critically important. It's not just about work, work, work. You got to enjoy yourself along the way as well. That's what I would tell that 18-year-old self, and that's what I would tell my old self today. Work hard, but yet have fun along the way. Thank you, Roger. This was such a pleasure. Absolutely my pleasure. Jacob, I'm going to be watching you.

[00:14:31] Go on. Okay. All right. Take care, everybody. Thanks. Bye. Thanks for listening to Formative, a production of New York Edge. I'm your host, Rachel Gazdick. Our production partner for this series is Citizen Racecar. This episode was produced by Hajar Adas, post-production by Alex Brower, original music by Garrett Tiedemann.

[00:14:59] Thanks to the whole team at New York Edge for making this series possible. Never miss an episode by subscribing to the series at newyorkedge.org slash formative or wherever you get your podcasts.